Discussion:
The great iPhone hunt of 2007
(too old to reply)
Lex
2007-06-16 16:07:20 UTC
Permalink
http://tech.msn.com/products/articlecnet.aspx?cp-documentid=5013198&GT1=10138

The great iPhone hunt of 2007
By Anne Broache, Staff Writer, CNET News.com

Apple CEO Steve Jobs recently gave free advice to a columnist asking how to
get an iPhone when they go on sale: head to an AT&T store, Jobs suggested,
rather than Apple's own retail outlets.

A CNET News.com survey of 75 Apple and AT&T stores indicates that may be a
wise approach.

Not one Apple store contacted offered would-be iPhone buyers the chance to
get on a waiting list, but some AT&T stores and retailers did. The catch:
not all stores that sell AT&T phones expect to be selling the iPhone on
June 29, and some that will expressed concern about receiving sufficient
quantities of the highly anticipated device.

An AT&T-owned store in Times Square in midtown Manhattan, for instance,
said that about 100 people had been placed on a waiting list. When asked
whether being on that list guarantees priority for buying an iPhone, a
store employee replied, "It depends how accessible you make yourself. I'm
going to call you. If you're here, you'll get it."

One open question is whether AT&T/Cingular franchises and resellers will
ever be selling the iPhone. (Because exclusive Cingular agents have signs
and decor that looked just like company-owned stores, it hasn't been easy
to tell them apart. But as of a few weeks ago, locally owned stores are now
called AT&T authorized retailers and are labeled as such in the company's
online directory.)

AT&T spokesman John Kampfe initially denied on Tuesday that any franchises
or resellers would receive iPhones. "The iPhone will be available in all
AT&T-owned retail stores nationwide, which number about 1,800. Again it
will be sold only in AT&T-owned retail stores, Apple retail stores and
through Apple's online store," Kampfe said in an e-mail interview.

But in the News.com survey, some franchises have said the opposite: that
they expect to supply customers with iPhones starting June 29. Others,
however, have said they're not getting the product at all; some say they're
unsure whether they'll stock them; and some said that if they did, the
phones would likely not arrive until at least July.

A Manhattan AT&T franchise on Third Avenue said on Tuesday that it's also
expecting the phone on June 29 but did not have a waiting list. In Miami,
an employee at an AT&T franchise on Dixie Highway said she had 16 people on
a waiting list for the 15 phones expected in the first shipment and would
continue taking names for the next batch of 15 phones. Those are expected
to arrive two weeks later.

In a follow-up conversation, AT&T's Kampfe indicated that franchises might
be able to start selling phones after June 29. "We haven't disclosed what
we're doing beyond the 29th," he said. "That's not to say we are going to
make them available, but as of the 29th, it is only going to be in
AT&T-owned stores, Apple stores, and Apple online."

Some other tidbits that surfaced in the survey:

• When asked whether it was possible to get on a waiting list or preorder
the iPhone, many AT&T store representatives cited an internal company
memorandum barring both practices. But AT&T's Kampfe said he could not
confirm or comment on the existence of such a policy. "Our policy is that
it is going to be sold on the day--no advance sales or anything of that
nature," he told CNET News.com in a phone interview.

• In San Francisco, an AT&T franchise store on Chestnut Street said it had
assembled a waiting list of sorts, but "maxed out" about two weeks ago and
would no longer be adding names to the list. That store said it expected to
receive about 30 iPhones, but most likely not until at least a few days
after the projected launch date. Five more stores in San Francisco, most of
them AT&T-owned, said they weren't taking preorders or starting waiting
lists, as did the downtown Apple store. Another franchise on Kearny Street
said it wasn't stocking the phone at all.

• Two stores in the Los Angeles area, which appeared from their directory
listing to be AT&T-owned, said they were taking down names for an informal
waiting list, but they couldn't guarantee that those on the list would
actually get their hands on the first crop of phones. (Three other area
stores, however, declined such requests at all.)

• Very few employees at AT&T or Apple stores had the faintest idea how many
phones their stores will stock, with many of them blaming that lack of
information on secrecy from the corporate powers at Apple.

• But some were more optimistic than others about the quantities. A Miami
Beach Apple store employee enthusiastically predicted that there would be
"enough" for everyone who wanted one, while an Apple store employee in
Cambridge, Mass., said she'd heard "good numbers" of iPhones would be
available at her location. A Salt Lake City Apple store employee, for his
part, couldn't be more specific than "a bunch." Estimates by some AT&T
store employees were more conservative, however. Employees at company-owned
stores in downtown San Francisco and Tampa, Fla., admitted they were
expecting only a "limited" number, at least at first.

• The cube-shaped Apple store on New York's Fifth Avenue may be open for
business 24 hours a day, but a representative who answered the phone
chuckled (knowingly?) when asked whether that location would begin selling
the phones at midnight on June 29. Apple hasn't told the store anything
about that, she said.

• At Apple's Salt Lake City outpost, an employee said he had heard buzz
about a midnight launch party, but knew only one thing for certain: come
June 29, there was sure to be a line going out the door. Almost every
customer that walks into the store asks about the iPhone, he said.

• An Omaha, Neb., Apple store employee said he fully expected to see people
camping outside before the launch, while a Portland, Ore. employee actually
advised doing so: "I recommend pitching a tent," he said, perhaps only half
kidding.


Tips for landing an iPhone

• Log on to Apple's Web-based store on June 29. The phone is set to go on
sale at 6 p.m. that day, Jobs announced. Sign up for updates here. But
forget trying AT&T's e-commerce site; the company says it won't be selling
iPhones online, at least initially.

• Call a few local AT&T stores and see if you can get on their waiting
lists or if your local sales representative has any tips about how that
particular store is handling requests. Most will tell you it's all
first-come, first-served, but practices appear to vary widely.

• Show up early at an Apple store or company-owned AT&T store before they
open on June 29. Most stores say they will be keeping normal hours that
day, although midnight parties at Apple stores don't appear to be
completely ruled out. The big question is how many phones each store will
stock.

• Wait until the June 29 mania dies down and hope that AT&T and Apple
decide to allow locally owned AT&T franchises and resellers to carry the
product as well. More locations should mean more units--and shorter lines.
Jeanette
2007-06-16 16:26:53 UTC
Permalink
If someone told me in 1977 that in 2007 people would wait in line to buy
a telephone I would have told them your crazy.
Post by Lex
http://tech.msn.com/products/articlecnet.aspx?cp-documentid=5013198&GT1=10138
The great iPhone hunt of 2007
By Anne Broache, Staff Writer, CNET News.com
Apple CEO Steve Jobs recently gave free advice to a columnist asking how to
get an iPhone when they go on sale: head to an AT&T store, Jobs suggested,
rather than Apple's own retail outlets.
A CNET News.com survey of 75 Apple and AT&T stores indicates that may be a
wise approach.
Not one Apple store contacted offered would-be iPhone buyers the chance to
not all stores that sell AT&T phones expect to be selling the iPhone on
June 29, and some that will expressed concern about receiving sufficient
quantities of the highly anticipated device.
An AT&T-owned store in Times Square in midtown Manhattan, for instance,
said that about 100 people had been placed on a waiting list. When asked
whether being on that list guarantees priority for buying an iPhone, a
store employee replied, "It depends how accessible you make yourself. I'm
going to call you. If you're here, you'll get it."
One open question is whether AT&T/Cingular franchises and resellers will
ever be selling the iPhone. (Because exclusive Cingular agents have signs
and decor that looked just like company-owned stores, it hasn't been easy
to tell them apart. But as of a few weeks ago, locally owned stores are now
called AT&T authorized retailers and are labeled as such in the company's
online directory.)
AT&T spokesman John Kampfe initially denied on Tuesday that any franchises
or resellers would receive iPhones. "The iPhone will be available in all
AT&T-owned retail stores nationwide, which number about 1,800. Again it
will be sold only in AT&T-owned retail stores, Apple retail stores and
through Apple's online store," Kampfe said in an e-mail interview.
But in the News.com survey, some franchises have said the opposite: that
they expect to supply customers with iPhones starting June 29. Others,
however, have said they're not getting the product at all; some say they're
unsure whether they'll stock them; and some said that if they did, the
phones would likely not arrive until at least July.
A Manhattan AT&T franchise on Third Avenue said on Tuesday that it's also
expecting the phone on June 29 but did not have a waiting list. In Miami,
an employee at an AT&T franchise on Dixie Highway said she had 16 people on
a waiting list for the 15 phones expected in the first shipment and would
continue taking names for the next batch of 15 phones. Those are expected
to arrive two weeks later.
In a follow-up conversation, AT&T's Kampfe indicated that franchises might
be able to start selling phones after June 29. "We haven't disclosed what
we're doing beyond the 29th," he said. "That's not to say we are going to
make them available, but as of the 29th, it is only going to be in
AT&T-owned stores, Apple stores, and Apple online."
• When asked whether it was possible to get on a waiting list or preorder
the iPhone, many AT&T store representatives cited an internal company
memorandum barring both practices. But AT&T's Kampfe said he could not
confirm or comment on the existence of such a policy. "Our policy is that
it is going to be sold on the day--no advance sales or anything of that
nature," he told CNET News.com in a phone interview.
• In San Francisco, an AT&T franchise store on Chestnut Street said it had
assembled a waiting list of sorts, but "maxed out" about two weeks ago and
would no longer be adding names to the list. That store said it expected to
receive about 30 iPhones, but most likely not until at least a few days
after the projected launch date. Five more stores in San Francisco, most of
them AT&T-owned, said they weren't taking preorders or starting waiting
lists, as did the downtown Apple store. Another franchise on Kearny Street
said it wasn't stocking the phone at all.
• Two stores in the Los Angeles area, which appeared from their directory
listing to be AT&T-owned, said they were taking down names for an informal
waiting list, but they couldn't guarantee that those on the list would
actually get their hands on the first crop of phones. (Three other area
stores, however, declined such requests at all.)
• Very few employees at AT&T or Apple stores had the faintest idea how many
phones their stores will stock, with many of them blaming that lack of
information on secrecy from the corporate powers at Apple.
• But some were more optimistic than others about the quantities. A Miami
Beach Apple store employee enthusiastically predicted that there would be
"enough" for everyone who wanted one, while an Apple store employee in
Cambridge, Mass., said she'd heard "good numbers" of iPhones would be
available at her location. A Salt Lake City Apple store employee, for his
part, couldn't be more specific than "a bunch." Estimates by some AT&T
store employees were more conservative, however. Employees at company-owned
stores in downtown San Francisco and Tampa, Fla., admitted they were
expecting only a "limited" number, at least at first.
• The cube-shaped Apple store on New York's Fifth Avenue may be open for
business 24 hours a day, but a representative who answered the phone
chuckled (knowingly?) when asked whether that location would begin selling
the phones at midnight on June 29. Apple hasn't told the store anything
about that, she said.
• At Apple's Salt Lake City outpost, an employee said he had heard buzz
about a midnight launch party, but knew only one thing for certain: come
June 29, there was sure to be a line going out the door. Almost every
customer that walks into the store asks about the iPhone, he said.
• An Omaha, Neb., Apple store employee said he fully expected to see people
camping outside before the launch, while a Portland, Ore. employee actually
advised doing so: "I recommend pitching a tent," he said, perhaps only half
kidding.
Tips for landing an iPhone
• Log on to Apple's Web-based store on June 29. The phone is set to go on
sale at 6 p.m. that day, Jobs announced. Sign up for updates here. But
forget trying AT&T's e-commerce site; the company says it won't be selling
iPhones online, at least initially.
• Call a few local AT&T stores and see if you can get on their waiting
lists or if your local sales representative has any tips about how that
particular store is handling requests. Most will tell you it's all
first-come, first-served, but practices appear to vary widely.
• Show up early at an Apple store or company-owned AT&T store before they
open on June 29. Most stores say they will be keeping normal hours that
day, although midnight parties at Apple stores don't appear to be
completely ruled out. The big question is how many phones each store will
stock.
• Wait until the June 29 mania dies down and hope that AT&T and Apple
decide to allow locally owned AT&T franchises and resellers to carry the
product as well. More locations should mean more units--and shorter lines.
Hadron Quark
2007-06-16 16:33:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeanette
If someone told me in 1977 that in 2007 people would wait in line to
buy a telephone I would have told them your crazy.
Why would you tell them that Lex was crazy? (Assuming you meant "you're").
Pegleg
2007-06-16 20:59:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeanette
If someone told me in 1977 that in 2007 people would wait in line to buy
a telephone I would have told them your crazy.
Did you really have to repost the whole fucking thing airhead?
John Bailo
2007-06-16 18:57:42 UTC
Permalink
Lex wrote:
http://tech.msn.com/products/articlecnet.aspx?cp-documentid=5013198&GT1=10138
Post by Lex
The great iPhone hunt of 2007
Sounds like a disaster in the making...
--
http://You-Read-It-Here-First.com
MuahMan
2007-06-16 19:07:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lex
http://tech.msn.com/products/articlecnet.aspx?cp-documentid=5013198&GT1=10138
Post by Lex
The great iPhone hunt of 2007
Sounds like a disaster in the making...
--
http://You-Read-It-Here-First.com
Did you read the user comments? LOL Funny stuff!

http://boards.live.com/Techboards/thread.aspx?boardid=730&threadid=317439&boardsparam=Page%3D1
Larry
2007-06-16 19:10:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lex
Tips for landing an iPhone
People have just GOT to be NUTS! There's no other way to explain their
stupidity being lead around like dogs on a leash....by the ad hypers.

I just hope the iphone doesn't suck as bad as the ipod does, and always
has.....

Larry
--
How silly......
William Michael Greene
2007-06-16 20:03:06 UTC
Permalink
iPod sucks?

Strange!
Post by Larry
Post by Lex
Tips for landing an iPhone
People have just GOT to be NUTS! There's no other way to explain their
stupidity being lead around like dogs on a leash....by the ad hypers.
I just hope the iphone doesn't suck as bad as the ipod does, and always
has.....
Larry
--
How silly......
George Kerby
2007-06-17 15:00:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Michael Greene
iPod sucks?
Strange!
Some folks see a green sky...
Geoff Miller
2007-06-17 14:25:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry
I just hope the iphone doesn't suck as bad as the ipod does,
and always has.....
Yeah, it's got to suck, considering how many of them have been
sold.

What I don't understand about the whole iPod/Walkman/Discman
phenomenon is why so many people feel the need to listen to
music so much of the time. Personally, I find music distrac-
ting when I'm trying to concentrate on something else. And
even when I'm not concentrating on anything in particular, I'm
usually quite content just to think.



Geoff

--
"Hell has no fury like a pacifist." -- Pete Stickney
Elmo P. Shagnasty
2007-06-17 14:48:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Geoff Miller
Post by Larry
I just hope the iphone doesn't suck as bad as the ipod does,
and always has.....
Yeah, it's got to suck, considering how many of them have been
sold.
Never underestimate the stupidity of people in large groups.

Just because everyone else is doing it, doesn't mean it makes sense.
Geoff Miller
2007-06-17 15:04:18 UTC
Permalink
Elmo P. Shagnasty <***@nastydesigns.com> writes:

[iPods]

: Yeah, it's got to suck, considering how many of them have been
: sold.
Post by Elmo P. Shagnasty
Just because everyone else is doing it, doesn't mean it makes sense.
Its making sense or not isn't the point. Its not sucking is the point.

What better evidence of a consumer product's not sucking could there
possibly be than the fact that a shitload of them have been sold?

And why _would_ the iPod suck, exactly? What is it that you don't
like?



Geoff

--
"Hell has no fury like a pacifist." -- Pete Stickney
Elmo P. Shagnasty
2007-06-17 15:10:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Geoff Miller
Post by Elmo P. Shagnasty
Just because everyone else is doing it, doesn't mean it makes sense.
Its making sense or not isn't the point. Its not sucking is the point.
OK...just because everyone else is doing it, doesn't mean it doesn't
suck.
Geoff Miller
2007-06-17 15:50:11 UTC
Permalink
Elmo P. Shagnasty <***@nastydesigns.com> writes:

: Its making sense or not isn't the point. Its not sucking is the point.
Post by Elmo P. Shagnasty
OK...just because everyone else is doing it, doesn't mean it doesn't
suck.
Of course it does. Consumer products that suck don't sell in vast
numbers like iPods do.

And you never did tell me *why* you insist that iPods suck.



Geoff

--
"Hell has no fury like a pacifist." -- Pete Stickney
Elmo P. Shagnasty
2007-06-17 19:31:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Geoff Miller
: Its making sense or not isn't the point. Its not sucking is the point.
Post by Elmo P. Shagnasty
OK...just because everyone else is doing it, doesn't mean it doesn't
suck.
Of course it does. Consumer products that suck don't sell in vast
numbers like iPods do.
And you never did tell me *why* you insist that iPods suck.
*I* never said that iPods suck.

But I repeat: just because everyone else is doing it (whatever "it"
is), doesn't mean "it" doesn't suck.
Elmo P. Shagnasty
2007-06-17 15:11:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Geoff Miller
Post by Elmo P. Shagnasty
Just because everyone else is doing it, doesn't mean it makes sense.
Its making sense or not isn't the point. Its not sucking is the point.
What better evidence of a consumer product's not sucking could there
possibly be than the fact that a shitload of them have been sold?
Microsoft Windows.

'Nuff said.
Kier
2007-06-17 16:14:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Elmo P. Shagnasty
Post by Geoff Miller
Post by Elmo P. Shagnasty
Just because everyone else is doing it, doesn't mean it makes sense.
Its making sense or not isn't the point. Its not sucking is the point.
What better evidence of a consumer product's not sucking could there
possibly be than the fact that a shitload of them have been sold?
Microsoft Windows.
'Nuff said.
The iPod is hardware, though, not software.
--
Kier
Justin
2007-06-17 15:45:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kier
Post by Elmo P. Shagnasty
Post by Geoff Miller
Post by Elmo P. Shagnasty
Just because everyone else is doing it, doesn't mean it makes sense.
Its making sense or not isn't the point. Its not sucking is the point.
What better evidence of a consumer product's not sucking could there
possibly be than the fact that a shitload of them have been sold?
Microsoft Windows.
'Nuff said.
The iPod is hardware, though, not software.
It's both
Geoff Miller
2007-06-17 15:59:39 UTC
Permalink
Elmo P. Shagnasty <***@nastydesigns.com> writes:

: What better evidence of a consumer product's not sucking could there
: possibly be than the fact that a shitload of them have been sold?
Post by Elmo P. Shagnasty
Microsoft Windows.
'Nuff said.
Not so fast.

Windows works just fine for most people most of the time. That's
why it sells as well as it does, and it's why it doesn't suck.
Not that there aren't better O/S's out there. But do Chevies suck
because they aren't Lexuses? Of course not. They and their
equivalents are perfectly satisfactory for most people most of the
time, and are cost-effective in the bargain.

I'm using Windows XP Home Edition right now, in fact, and I'm quite
happy with it. I also run XP Professioal on my company-provided
laptop; it also works more than adequately well. And being a UNIX
system administrator, I do have a basis for comparison.



Geoff

--
"Hell has no fury like a pacifist." -- Pete Stickney
Justin
2007-06-17 16:03:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Geoff Miller
: What better evidence of a consumer product's not sucking could there
: possibly be than the fact that a shitload of them have been sold?
Post by Elmo P. Shagnasty
Microsoft Windows.
'Nuff said.
Not so fast.
Windows works just fine for most people most of the time. That's
why it sells as well as it does, and it's why it doesn't suck.
Not that there aren't better O/S's out there. But do Chevies suck
because they aren't Lexuses? Of course not. They and their
I dunno, in my recent experience Chevies suck because they ARE Chevies.
Requiring all sorts of work because of poor quality and design.
100,000 mile coolant that eats away at gaskets before 70,000 miles.
Trannies that die before 75,000 miles.
Scott en Aztlán
2007-06-17 17:15:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Geoff Miller
: What better evidence of a consumer product's not sucking could there
: possibly be than the fact that a shitload of them have been sold?
Post by Elmo P. Shagnasty
Microsoft Windows.
'Nuff said.
Not so fast.
Windows works just fine for most people most of the time. That's
why it sells as well as it does, and it's why it doesn't suck.
That same argument could be applied to "prove" that factory car
stereos made by Delco and Visteon don't suck. After all, millions of
them are sold every year, making them among the most successful
consumer electronic products of all time.

Oh, and the Vortec Cyclone Fuel Saver must not suck, either, since a
shitload of those are sold every day too.
--
I hated Bush before it was cool.
Jolly Roger
2007-06-17 17:19:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott en Aztlán
Post by Geoff Miller
: What better evidence of a consumer product's not sucking could there
: possibly be than the fact that a shitload of them have been sold?
Post by Elmo P. Shagnasty
Microsoft Windows.
'Nuff said.
Not so fast.
Windows works just fine for most people most of the time. That's
why it sells as well as it does, and it's why it doesn't suck.
That same argument could be applied to "prove" that factory car
stereos made by Delco and Visteon don't suck. After all, millions of
them are sold every year, making them among the most successful
consumer electronic products of all time.
Oh, and the Vortec Cyclone Fuel Saver must not suck, either, since a
shitload of those are sold every day too.
...and shit must taste really good, because billions of flies can't be wrong!

*smirk*
--
JR
Larry
2007-06-17 19:07:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott en Aztlán
Oh, and the Vortec Cyclone Fuel Saver must not suck, either, since a
shitload of those are sold every day too.
-
You guys want a great example of how stupid people are?

One word - Amsoil

Call 'em up a the bottling plant and ask 'em the address of the
REFINERY...

What a ripoff....just rebottling oil and selling it on a pyramid.

Here's another word to test it - Amway

Same idea...(c;

Larry
--
http://www.spp.gov/
The end of the USA and its Constitution....RIP
Bill Kraski
2007-06-18 13:42:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry
You guys want a great example of how stupid people are?
One word - Amsoil
Call 'em up a the bottling plant and ask 'em the address of the
REFINERY...
Since when does synthetic oil go through a refinery? Nobody can tell
you what refinery Mobil One comes from, either.
--
Bill K
Jer
2007-06-18 15:40:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Kraski
Post by Larry
You guys want a great example of how stupid people are?
One word - Amsoil
Call 'em up a the bottling plant and ask 'em the address of the
REFINERY...
Since when does synthetic oil go through a refinery? Nobody can tell
you what refinery Mobil One comes from, either.
A few years ago, a lady friend and I were running errands in her car.
One errand was an oil change, so she stopped at a local Jiffy Lube. One
of the grease monkeys tried to convince everybody that Mobil One came
from a toxic waste dump and anybody dumb enough to use that radioactive
cancer crap in their car got exactly what they deserved. After I told
him I had been changing Mobil One in two cars, one truck, and a Harley
for over twenty years and still had only two eyes and no extra
appendages, he stopped flapping his yap. His teenage tirade caused
another grease monkey to giggle so much, he stripped the oil drain plug,
and it cost him $1200 to replace the oil pan. This level of ignorance
is waaay too funny to be legal.
--
jer
email reply - I am not a 'ten'
Elmo P. Shagnasty
2007-06-17 19:30:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Geoff Miller
: What better evidence of a consumer product's not sucking could there
: possibly be than the fact that a shitload of them have been sold?
Post by Elmo P. Shagnasty
Microsoft Windows.
'Nuff said.
Not so fast.
Windows works just fine for most people most of the time. That's
why it sells as well as it does, and it's why it doesn't suck.
Not that there aren't better O/S's out there. But do Chevies suck
because they aren't Lexuses? Of course not.
No, they suck because they suck.

Just like Windows.

I'm not saying a Chevy never works, and I'm not saying Windows never
works.

But they suck nonetheless. Yet people keep buying into it.
chrisv
2007-06-17 23:19:34 UTC
Permalink
Windows works just fine for most people most of the time. That's why it
sells as well as it does, and it's why it doesn't suck.
And McDonalds makes the best burgers.

Idiot.
E***@spamblock.panix.com
2007-06-18 11:17:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by chrisv
Windows works just fine for most people most of the time. That's why it
sells as well as it does, and it's why it doesn't suck.
And McDonalds makes the best burgers.
Idiot.
No, the correct extension of his point would be that MacDonalds works fine
for most people. That's why they sell so much.
--
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
-- Bertrand Russel
Elmo P. Shagnasty
2007-06-18 14:02:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by E***@spamblock.panix.com
Post by chrisv
Windows works just fine for most people most of the time. That's why it
sells as well as it does, and it's why it doesn't suck.
And McDonalds makes the best burgers.
Idiot.
No, the correct extension of his point would be that MacDonalds works fine
for most people. That's why they sell so much.
That doesn't make McDonald's good. Rather, that makes most people
stupid.

Of course, some of us don't need that extra proof, but thank you anyway.
Jer
2007-06-18 15:41:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Elmo P. Shagnasty
Post by E***@spamblock.panix.com
Post by chrisv
Windows works just fine for most people most of the time. That's why it
sells as well as it does, and it's why it doesn't suck.
And McDonalds makes the best burgers.
Idiot.
No, the correct extension of his point would be that MacDonalds works fine
for most people. That's why they sell so much.
That doesn't make McDonald's good. Rather, that makes most people
stupid.
Of course, some of us don't need that extra proof, but thank you anyway.
McD's = Mystery Meat.
--
jer
email reply - I am not a 'ten'
E***@spamblock.panix.com
2007-06-18 19:47:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Elmo P. Shagnasty
Post by E***@spamblock.panix.com
Post by chrisv
Windows works just fine for most people most of the time. That's why it
sells as well as it does, and it's why it doesn't suck.
And McDonalds makes the best burgers.
Idiot.
No, the correct extension of his point would be that MacDonalds works fine
for most people. That's why they sell so much.
That doesn't make McDonald's good.
A trivial, irrelevant point.
--
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
-- Bertrand Russel
MuahMan
2007-06-18 12:38:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by chrisv
Windows works just fine for most people most of the time. That's why it
sells as well as it does, and it's why it doesn't suck.
And McDonalds makes the best burgers.
Idiot.
Why did someone name you idiot?
k***@sbcglobal.net
2007-06-18 13:19:23 UTC
Permalink
Windows works just fine for most people most of the time. That's why it
sells as well as it does, and it's why it doesn't suck.
Windows is so simple to use that Barnes and Noble has 50 some odd
books on how to use it.

Windows for Idiots is very popular.
Bert Hyman
2007-06-18 13:52:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by k***@sbcglobal.net
Post by Geoff Miller
Windows works just fine for most people most of the time.
That's why it sells as well as it does, and it's why it doesn't
suck.
Windows is so simple to use that Barnes and Noble has 50 some odd
books on how to use it.
Windows for Idiots is very popular.
Does that mean that Windows is hard to use, or just that there are a
lot of idiots trying to use it?
--
Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN | ***@iphouse.com
Bill Kraski
2007-06-18 13:40:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Geoff Miller
Windows works just fine for most people most of the time. That's
why it sells as well as it does, and it's why it doesn't suck.
How does it "sell" as well as it does? An OEM agreement with the
manufacturer to preinstall an OS that raises the price of the machine
more than it's equvalents would is not selling -- it's offering the
consumer no choice without adding cost to already added cost. Take a
look at Windows Vista upgrade & full install sales, when it's not
preinstalled -- dismal.
Post by Geoff Miller
Not that there aren't better O/S's out there. But do Chevies suck
because they aren't Lexuses? Of course not. They and their
Your comparison might have been more "real world" if you had compared
say Chevy & Toyota. But, then again, even with the added cost, is
Lexus really that much better just because it costs more? :-) I've
never really had a need for a car that parks itself. ;-)
Post by Geoff Miller
equivalents are perfectly satisfactory for most people most of the
time, and are cost-effective in the bargain.
I'll agree that Windows works perfectly well for most. But, if you
look at the pricing for Dell computers, the choice of linux & Windows
preinstalled has the Windows boxes more expensive than the alternative.
So, when the customer is given a choice, what makes the more expensive
Windows installation more cost effective?
--
Bill K
Jer
2007-06-18 15:44:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Kraski
Your comparison might have been more "real world" if you had compared
say Chevy & Toyota. But, then again, even with the added cost, is
Lexus really that much better just because it costs more? :-) I've
never really had a need for a car that parks itself. ;-)
...but the teevee says all your friends would think you're cool if you
had a car that could.
--
jer
email reply - I am not a 'ten'
Pegleg
2007-06-17 16:39:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Geoff Miller
And why _would_ the iPod suck, exactly? What is it that you don't
like?
One reason I would never buy one is the fact it is tied to music from
apple. I expect to be able to put my own music on a mp3 player from
wherever I want.
Justin
2007-06-17 16:42:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pegleg
Post by Geoff Miller
And why _would_ the iPod suck, exactly? What is it that you don't
like?
One reason I would never buy one is the fact it is tied to music from
apple. I expect to be able to put my own music on a mp3 player from
wherever I want.
Most people with an iPod do not buy music via iTunes, that has been
stated again and again. You can put any mp3 on there you want.
Kier
2007-06-17 18:02:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Justin
Post by Pegleg
Post by Geoff Miller
And why _would_ the iPod suck, exactly? What is it that you don't
like?
One reason I would never buy one is the fact it is tied to music from
apple. I expect to be able to put my own music on a mp3 player from
wherever I want.
Most people with an iPod do not buy music via iTunes, that has been
stated again and again. You can put any mp3 on there you want.
I've been thinking of trying Magnatune for buying tracks, to support
unknown artists (some of them are pretty good, from those I've listened
too). Anyone else had experience with them?
--
Kier
Gamma
2007-06-18 18:55:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Justin
Post by Pegleg
Post by Geoff Miller
And why _would_ the iPod suck, exactly? What is it that you don't
like?
One reason I would never buy one is the fact it is tied to music from
apple. I expect to be able to put my own music on a mp3 player from
wherever I want.
Most people with an iPod do not buy music via iTunes, that has been
stated again and again. You can put any mp3 on there you want.
There's no bigger Apple supporter than I yet I have several complaints
about the iPod/iTunes duet. One of them exactly being that it only
handles mp3 data.

When the world said goodbye to vinyl and embraced compact discs, I was
very excited. I was involved in the industry and I know how hard the
scientists at PDO (Philips-duPont Optical) and Sony worked to get the
finest possibly quality out of the technology.

Now, what do we have? The computer industry, with heavy collusion from
Apple, have effectively dumbed-down the technology again. Wouldn't
surprise me if a proper test found that mp3 is vastly inferior to the
best that vinyl offered.

Apple was overpowered by Microsoft in the office. But they captured
first the desktop publishing industry (captured? Hell, they _invented
it!) then the pro and semi-pro audio industry. They also took and will
continue to take swipes at the semi-pro video industry. In other
words, creative art is Apple's strong point.

Moronic teenagers maybe can't tell the difference. Professionals surely
can and they wince. Why oh why would Apple shoot itself in the foot
like this? I'm very sad. And angry.

So why serve up this shitty mp3 format ONLY?
Justin
2007-06-18 19:09:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gamma
Post by Justin
Post by Pegleg
Post by Geoff Miller
And why _would_ the iPod suck, exactly? What is it that you don't
like?
One reason I would never buy one is the fact it is tied to music from
apple. I expect to be able to put my own music on a mp3 player from
wherever I want.
Most people with an iPod do not buy music via iTunes, that has been
stated again and again. You can put any mp3 on there you want.
There's no bigger Apple supporter than I yet I have several complaints
about the iPod/iTunes duet. One of them exactly being that it only
handles mp3 data.
Actually, no. It prefers AAC, which is NOT Mp3. MP3 works, I believe WAV
works too
Post by Gamma
Now, what do we have? The computer industry, with heavy collusion from
Apple, have effectively dumbed-down the technology again. Wouldn't
surprise me if a proper test found that mp3 is vastly inferior to the
best that vinyl offered.
A 320kbit MP3 doesn't sound too terrible
Rod Speed
2007-06-18 20:06:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Justin
Post by Pegleg
Post by Geoff Miller
And why _would_ the iPod suck, exactly? What is it that you don't
like?
One reason I would never buy one is the fact it is tied to music
from apple. I expect to be able to put my own music on a mp3
player from wherever I want.
Most people with an iPod do not buy music via iTunes, that has been
stated again and again. You can put any mp3 on there you want.
There's no bigger Apple supporter than I yet I have several complaints about
the iPod/iTunes duet. One of them exactly being that it only handles mp3 data.
No it doesnt.
When the world said goodbye to vinyl and embraced compact discs,
I was very excited. I was involved in the industry and I know how
hard the scientists at PDO (Philips-duPont Optical) and Sony
worked to get the finest possibly quality out of the technology.
Irrelevant to what works fine with the sort of portable system an ipod is.
Now, what do we have? The computer industry, with heavy collusion
from Apple, have effectively dumbed-down the technology again.
Mindlessly silly.
Wouldn't surprise me if a proper test found that mp3
is vastly inferior to the best that vinyl offered.
Irrelevant to what works fine with the sort of portable system an ipod is.
Apple was overpowered by Microsoft in the office. But they captured
first the desktop publishing industry (captured? Hell, they _invented it!)
No they didnt.
then the pro and semi-pro audio industry. They also took and
will continue to take swipes at the semi-pro video industry. In
other words, creative art is Apple's strong point.
Just as well, they're a complete dud at everything else.
Moronic teenagers maybe can't tell the difference. Professionals
surely can and they wince. Why oh why would Apple shoot itself
in the foot like this? I'm very sad. And angry.
Your problem.
So why serve up this shitty mp3 format ONLY?
They dont. And it clearly works well enough for hordes of people, and THATS what matters anyway.
Kier
2007-06-17 17:59:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pegleg
Post by Geoff Miller
And why _would_ the iPod suck, exactly? What is it that you don't
like?
One reason I would never buy one is the fact it is tied to music from
apple. I expect to be able to put my own music on a mp3 player from
wherever I want.
I think you can do that. You just can't sync other stores' content like
you can with iTunes. I know you can rip your music and put in on a Pod
because my brother has one, and has all his CDs ripped to it. I'm not sure
about buying stuff, though.
--
Kier
Rod Speed
2007-06-17 19:02:36 UTC
Permalink
And why _would_ the iPod suck, exactly? What is it that you don't like?
One reason I would never buy one is the fact it is tied to music from apple.
No it isnt. It will import your CDs etc fine.
I expect to be able to put my own music on a mp3 player from wherever I want.
You can with an ipod.
Elmo P. Shagnasty
2007-06-17 19:12:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pegleg
Post by Geoff Miller
And why _would_ the iPod suck, exactly? What is it that you don't
like?
One reason I would never buy one is the fact it is tied to music from
apple. I expect to be able to put my own music on a mp3 player from
wherever I want.
Hmmmmm. You can. Not sure why you're saying you can't....I mean, it
*is* an MP3 player, right? Got MP3s? Put 'em on.

And you can even BUY music from Apple that isn't restricted to being
play on an iPod or in iTunes. Yup, they're slowly but surely killing
the DRM that made me not buy anything from the iTunes music store.
Booger
2007-06-18 05:41:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pegleg
Post by Geoff Miller
And why _would_ the iPod suck, exactly? What is it that you don't
like?
One reason I would never buy one is the fact it is tied to music from
apple. I expect to be able to put my own music on a mp3 player from
wherever I want.
I have 4000 songs on my Ipod and have never bought a single tune from Apple
(I-tunes).
Bill Gates
2007-06-18 06:59:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pegleg
Post by Geoff Miller
And why _would_ the iPod suck, exactly? What is it that you don't
like?
One reason I would never buy one is the fact it is tied to music from
apple. I expect to be able to put my own music on a mp3 player from
wherever I want.
when did that happen? do you have a inside story that says that only
Apple purchased music can be played on iPods? I bet you $1 million that
you can't find it. iPods are the most open of any MP3 player.

98% of songs on iPods DO NOT COME FROM APPLE.

How can this be?
Rod Speed
2007-06-18 09:35:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Gates
Post by Pegleg
And why _would_ the iPod suck, exactly? What is it that you don't like?
One reason I would never buy one is the fact it is tied to music from
apple. I expect to be able to put my own music on a mp3 player from
wherever I want.
when did that happen?
Never, it was always a pig ignorant lie.
Post by Bill Gates
do you have a inside story that says that only
Apple purchased music can be played on iPods?
Nope.
Post by Bill Gates
I bet you $1 million that you can't find it.
iPods are the most open of any MP3 player.
Nope, they arent quite as easy to load as most mp3 players.
Post by Bill Gates
98% of songs on iPods DO NOT COME FROM APPLE.
You've just plucked that number out of your arse.
Post by Bill Gates
How can this be?
See above.
Gamma
2007-06-18 18:58:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Bill Gates
98% of songs on iPods DO NOT COME FROM APPLE.
You've just plucked that number out of your arse.
Wrong. Steve Jobs quoted some real figures recently. I forget, though,
if 98 was THE figure. But, if not, it's close.
Justin
2007-06-18 19:09:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gamma
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Bill Gates
98% of songs on iPods DO NOT COME FROM APPLE.
You've just plucked that number out of your arse.
Wrong. Steve Jobs quoted some real figures recently. I forget, though,
if 98 was THE figure. But, if not, it's close.
It was either 95 or 98.
Rod Speed
2007-06-18 20:09:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gamma
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Bill Gates
98% of songs on iPods DO NOT COME FROM APPLE.
You've just plucked that number out of your arse.
Wrong. Steve Jobs quoted some real figures recently.
No he didnt, they were just plucked from someone else's arse.
Post by Gamma
I forget, though, if 98 was THE figure. But, if not, it's close.
Nope, that particular number was plucked from his arse.

John Bailo
2007-06-18 07:11:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pegleg
Post by Geoff Miller
And why _would_ the iPod suck, exactly? What is it that you don't
like?
One reason I would never buy one is the fact it is tied to music from
apple. I expect to be able to put my own music on a mp3 player from
wherever I want.
Well -- assuming that you don't care to violate any copyrights -- what
music exactly are you talking about?

You either buy it from iTunes, or another service.

Or you rent it from Rhapsody or Yahoo Music, et al., which requires DRM.
E***@spamblock.panix.com
2007-06-18 11:19:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Bailo
Well -- assuming that you don't care to violate any copyrights -- what
music exactly are you talking about?
You either buy it from iTunes, or another service.
Or you rent it from Rhapsody or Yahoo Music, et al., which requires DRM.
Or you copy it from your CD onto your iPod, under the fair use doctrine.
Duh.
--
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
-- Bertrand Russel
Gamma
2007-06-18 19:00:23 UTC
Permalink
In article <f55pn7$p70$***@reader2.panix.com>,
<***@spamblock.panix.com> wrote:

John Bailo <***@texeme.com> signed off with:
--
Post by E***@spamblock.panix.com
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
-- Bertrand Russel
He should've added "At least I think so!"
Scott en Aztlán
2007-06-17 17:01:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Geoff Miller
: Yeah, it's got to suck, considering how many of them have been
: sold.
Post by Elmo P. Shagnasty
Just because everyone else is doing it, doesn't mean it makes sense.
Its making sense or not isn't the point. Its not sucking is the point.
What better evidence of a consumer product's not sucking could there
possibly be than the fact that a shitload of them have been sold?
C'mon, Geoff, you're too smart to be making this argument.

How many people bought

* Microsoft Windows
* George Foreman grills
* Pet rocks
* VHS VCRs
* Chiapets
* Toyota Priuses (despite long waiting lists and rapacious
price-gouging by dealers)
* Etc. Etc. Etc.

The fact that so many fat chicks are wearing Britney-Spears-style
hip-huggers and belly shirts even though their flab is hanging out all
over the place is proof positive that the American consumer is more
influenced by trendiness than suckiness (or lack thereof).
--
I hated Bush before it was cool.
Elmo P. Shagnasty
2007-06-17 19:10:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott en Aztlán
The fact that so many fat chicks are wearing Britney-Spears-style
hip-huggers and belly shirts even though their flab is hanging out all
over the place is proof positive that the American consumer is more
influenced by trendiness than suckiness (or lack thereof).
BAM!

I'm going to put that on a shirt and sell it on CafePress. That is MOST
excellent!
Scott en Aztlán
2007-06-18 04:56:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Elmo P. Shagnasty
Post by Scott en Aztlán
The fact that so many fat chicks are wearing Britney-Spears-style
hip-huggers and belly shirts even though their flab is hanging out all
over the place is proof positive that the American consumer is more
influenced by trendiness than suckiness (or lack thereof).
BAM!
I'm going to put that on a shirt and sell it on CafePress. That is MOST
excellent!
While I'm flattered that you thought my statement quoteworthy, it's
not exactly the sort of short, catchy phrase one normally finds
printed on a T-shirt. :)
--
I hated Bush before it was cool.
clifto
2007-06-18 05:04:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott en Aztlán
Post by Elmo P. Shagnasty
Post by Scott en Aztlán
The fact that so many fat chicks are wearing Britney-Spears-style
hip-huggers and belly shirts even though their flab is hanging out all
over the place is proof positive that the American consumer is more
influenced by trendiness than suckiness (or lack thereof).
BAM!
I'm going to put that on a shirt and sell it on CafePress. That is MOST
excellent!
While I'm flattered that you thought my statement quoteworthy, it's
not exactly the sort of short, catchy phrase one normally finds
printed on a T-shirt. :)
I think he was going to remedy that. However, sizes may start at 3X.
Kurt
2007-06-18 15:08:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott en Aztlán
The fact that so many fat chicks are wearing Britney-Spears-style
hip-huggers and belly shirts even though their flab is hanging out all
over the place is proof positive that the American consumer is more
influenced by trendiness than suckiness (or lack thereof).
Muffintops are big in the midwest.
--
To reply by email, remove the word "space"
Larry
2007-06-17 19:04:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Geoff Miller
And why _would_ the iPod suck, exactly? What is it that you don't
like?
Hell that's easy. I cannot plug it into my computer, use Windows
Explorer to copy 200 MP3s over to it, unattended, then simply push play
to start playing them.

No, I can't do that. I gotta use some licensing bullshit program and do
'em slow as dirt.

Is that enough reason?

NEVER buy an MP3 player that ISN'T treated as a SIMPLE external hard
drive by Windoze and will play MP3s copied to it by ANY file handler,
even DOS, in the raw.

Too bad my best player (I have 5 out of the 12 I've bought over the
years) isn't available to the LONG waiting list that existed when it was
dumped by Digital Mind Corp for greener pastures. How stupid. It's
called the Xclef 500 and uses STANDARD parts...STANDARD Li-Ion battery
pack, STANDARD 2.5" hard drive available anywhere, STANDARD simple power
brick available at any Radio Shack. It runs 22 hours on a charge. It
needs it. Initially it had a 100GB drive. I upgraded it to 120GB. It's
STILL the largest storage MP3 player, ever. Being a HARD DRIVE to the
computer, it loads as fast as any external hard drive. I also,
sometimes, use it as a laptop hard drive not an MP3 player. It also has
a great FM radio, direct-to-MP3 low res or high res (128K) audio recorder
with virtually no limit to how long it will record. Plug it into your
audio board with a STANDARD cable and it will record your whole concert
at 128Kbps MP3 in stereo with beautiful quality. It makes no discernable
background noise, even plugging its headphone jack into my 1450W Prosound
DJ board.



Larry
--
http://www.spp.gov/
The end of the USA and its Constitution....RIP
Elmo P. Shagnasty
2007-06-17 19:25:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry
Post by Geoff Miller
And why _would_ the iPod suck, exactly? What is it that you don't
like?
Hell that's easy. I cannot plug it into my computer, use Windows
Explorer to copy 200 MP3s over to it, unattended, then simply push play
to start playing them.
Yes, you can.
Post by Larry
No, I can't do that. I gotta use some licensing bullshit program and do
'em slow as dirt.
No, you don't.
Shawn Hirn
2007-06-18 11:09:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry
Post by Geoff Miller
And why _would_ the iPod suck, exactly? What is it that you don't
like?
Hell that's easy. I cannot plug it into my computer, use Windows
Explorer to copy 200 MP3s over to it, unattended, then simply push play
to start playing them.
No, I can't do that. I gotta use some licensing bullshit program and do
'em slow as dirt.
Yeh! Using iTunes is really tough. You can store mp3 files on an iPod
and play them easily via iTunes. I have thousands of mp3 tracks on my
iPod.
Kier
2007-06-17 15:56:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Geoff Miller
Post by Larry
I just hope the iphone doesn't suck as bad as the ipod does,
and always has.....
Yeah, it's got to suck, considering how many of them have been
sold.
I certainly don't think the iPod sucks. They're extremely well-designed
items, very attractive physically, and easy to use. My brother just bought
himself a video iPod. But my own preference is the Archos series of media
players. They're not as pretty, and the controls are somewhat clunky, but
they're great players.
Post by Geoff Miller
What I don't understand about the whole iPod/Walkman/Discman
phenomenon is why so many people feel the need to listen to
music so much of the time. Personally, I find music distrac-
ting when I'm trying to concentrate on something else. And
even when I'm not concentrating on anything in particular, I'm
usually quite content just to think.
Depending on circumstance, I find music helps the thought process. As I
don't drive, I travel on buses a fair bit, and the combination of riding
the bus and listening to music really helps my imagination to flow freely.

Other times, I just like to listen to the world go by. It depends on mood.
Riding in a car, for instance, seems to demand music (usually rock or
metal of some sort.

But as you say, not everyone likes to have a soundtrack in their daily
lives. Maybe it's something to do with watching so many films and TV
shows where all the action takes place to a thumping beat; perhaps we've
subconsciously come to believe that's how life should be too.

(follow-ups set to COLA, as I don't read the other groups)
--
Kier
Geoff Miller
2007-06-17 15:13:58 UTC
Permalink
Kier <***@tiscali.co.uk> writes:

: Yeah, it's got to suck, considering how many of them have been
: sold.
Post by Kier
I certainly don't think the iPod sucks.
I was being sarcastic.
Post by Kier
They're extremely well-designed items, very attractive physically,
and easy to use.
I think so, too. I personally don't care to own one, but I can
appreciate the quality of their conception and design.
Post by Kier
Depending on circumstance, I find music helps the thought process.
As I don't drive, I travel on buses a fair bit, and the combination
of riding the bus and listening to music really helps my imagination
to flow freely.
I can see how that would be true when using public transportation.

Driving a car is different, at least to me. Music once in a while
is good. Mostly, though, I find it distracting. I'm usually happy
just to listen to the sound of the wind and the tires. I don't
understand people who have to have music whenever they're in a car.
I've actually had passengers who squirmed with visible discomfort
when I failed to turn on the radio.
Post by Kier
(follow-ups set to COLA, as I don't read the other groups)
Well, other people who are following this thread do. Myself
among them (I'm reading this in misc.consumers.)



Geoff

--
"Hell has no fury like a pacifist." -- Pete Stickney
Kier
2007-06-17 16:23:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Geoff Miller
: Yeah, it's got to suck, considering how many of them have been
: sold.
Post by Kier
I certainly don't think the iPod sucks.
I was being sarcastic.
Yeah, I did get that :-)
Post by Geoff Miller
Post by Kier
They're extremely well-designed items, very attractive physically,
and easy to use.
I think so, too. I personally don't care to own one, but I can
appreciate the quality of their conception and design.
Likewise.
Post by Geoff Miller
Post by Kier
Depending on circumstance, I find music helps the thought process.
As I don't drive, I travel on buses a fair bit, and the combination
of riding the bus and listening to music really helps my imagination
to flow freely.
I can see how that would be true when using public transportation.
Cuts out peole nattering, for one. I don't mind hearing the conversations
of others, but they distract me, as I start following along, getting
interested in what they're talking about <grin>
Post by Geoff Miller
Driving a car is different, at least to me. Music once in a while
is good. Mostly, though, I find it distracting. I'm usually happy
just to listen to the sound of the wind and the tires. I don't
understand people who have to have music whenever they're in a car.
I've actually had passengers who squirmed with visible discomfort
when I failed to turn on the radio.
Post by Kier
(follow-ups set to COLA, as I don't read the other groups)
Well, other people who are following this thread do. Myself
among them (I'm reading this in misc.consumers.)
Difficult, ain't it? I'll leave out follow-ups if you like, but I'll
probably get blasted by someone for cross-posting. But what the hell...
--
Kier
George
2007-06-17 15:05:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Geoff Miller
Post by Larry
I just hope the iphone doesn't suck as bad as the ipod does,
and always has.....
Yeah, it's got to suck, considering how many of them have been
sold.
What I don't understand about the whole iPod/Walkman/Discman
phenomenon is why so many people feel the need to listen to
music so much of the time. Personally, I find music distrac-
ting when I'm trying to concentrate on something else. And
even when I'm not concentrating on anything in particular, I'm
usually quite content just to think.
I also shake my head at that. I also don't understand the need to get on
your growling quad and race through the forest to "enjoy nature".
Bert Hyman
2007-06-17 15:14:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Geoff Miller
What I don't understand about the whole iPod/Walkman/Discman
phenomenon is why so many people feel the need to listen to
music so much of the time.
Since this is cross-posted to a couple of cellphone-related newsgroups,
I guess it's OK for me to express my curiosity about why so many
people feel the need to be on the phone talking to somebody so much of
the time.

Kids I can understand; hanging on the landline phone was common long
before the advent of the cellphone.

Adults however, they're a different story, aren't they?
--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN ***@iphouse.com
Kier
2007-06-17 16:42:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bert Hyman
Post by Geoff Miller
What I don't understand about the whole iPod/Walkman/Discman
phenomenon is why so many people feel the need to listen to
music so much of the time.
Since this is cross-posted to a couple of cellphone-related newsgroups,
I guess it's OK for me to express my curiosity about why so many
people feel the need to be on the phone talking to somebody so much of
the time.
Hey, don't feel you have to excuse getting into this.
Post by Bert Hyman
Kids I can understand; hanging on the landline phone was common long
before the advent of the cellphone.
Adults however, they're a different story, aren't they?
Personally, I don't realy enjoy talking on the phone. I like to speak to
people I can see.

I suppose it's just an extension of the usual yakking everyone does, not
just kids, this new trend. Gues I must be just an old dinosaur type.
--
Kier
aemeijers
2007-06-17 16:19:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kier
Post by Bert Hyman
Post by Geoff Miller
What I don't understand about the whole iPod/Walkman/Discman
phenomenon is why so many people feel the need to listen to
music so much of the time.
Since this is cross-posted to a couple of cellphone-related newsgroups,
I guess it's OK for me to express my curiosity about why so many
people feel the need to be on the phone talking to somebody so much of
the time.
Hey, don't feel you have to excuse getting into this.
Post by Bert Hyman
Kids I can understand; hanging on the landline phone was common long
before the advent of the cellphone.
Adults however, they're a different story, aren't they?
Personally, I don't realy enjoy talking on the phone. I like to speak to
people I can see.
I suppose it's just an extension of the usual yakking everyone does, not
just kids, this new trend. Gues I must be just an old dinosaur type.
Chuckle. The one that makes me shake my head is people yakking on cells in
the frigging grocery store. Not 'honey, what was that you told me not to
forget?' calls, just yakking. Can they not go 20 ninutes with only their own
thoughts, paying attention to the task at hand?

aem sends....
Elmo P. Shagnasty
2007-06-17 19:29:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by aemeijers
Chuckle. The one that makes me shake my head is people yakking on cells in
the frigging grocery store. Not 'honey, what was that you told me not to
forget?' calls, just yakking. Can they not go 20 ninutes with only their own
thoughts, paying attention to the task at hand?
That brings to mind people who complain about beer and hot dog prices at
sporting arenas. Good God, people, can't you go two hours without
feeding your face?
Shawn Hirn
2007-06-18 11:06:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by aemeijers
Chuckle. The one that makes me shake my head is people yakking on cells in
the frigging grocery store. Not 'honey, what was that you told me not to
forget?' calls, just yakking. Can they not go 20 ninutes with only their own
thoughts, paying attention to the task at hand?
I don't talk on my cell phone in stores, but I will sometimes do that if
I am out in the park taking a walk. Its a good use of my time. I have
tons of contacts, both personal and business-related, so if I am
thinking about someone or something I need to do, I will just use my
exercise time to call the person while I am exercising. I might call a
business associate to leave a voicemail or my mom or sister just to say
hello. Its all about making efficient use of one's time.
Jer
2007-06-17 16:05:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bert Hyman
Post by Geoff Miller
What I don't understand about the whole iPod/Walkman/Discman
phenomenon is why so many people feel the need to listen to
music so much of the time.
Since this is cross-posted to a couple of cellphone-related newsgroups,
I guess it's OK for me to express my curiosity about why so many
people feel the need to be on the phone talking to somebody so much of
the time.
Kids I can understand; hanging on the landline phone was common long
before the advent of the cellphone.
Adults however, they're a different story, aren't they?
Not really, they never acquired the maturity to resist the peer pressure
of having to stay connected to someone. They're incapable of feeling
complete without the virtual companionship represented by friend's voice
in their ear. Without it, they somehow feel muzzled as to what they
expect from themselves and others. Even a fly becomes a trusted
companion when personal aloneness is unacceptable.

And then you've got the whole corporate advertising BS that feeds this
societal aberration of immature drones hanging onto each other as they
fall into the Chasm of Social Acceptability. This level of modern
misery requires a companion to avoid personal responsibility associated
with not being who they truly are, or could be.
--
jer
email reply - I am not a 'ten'
Geoff Miller
2007-06-17 16:12:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bert Hyman
Since this is cross-posted to a couple of cellphone-related
newsgroups, I guess it's OK for me to express my curiosity
about why so many people feel the need to be on the phone
talking to somebody so much of the time.
Works for me.

I don't get that either. It's unclear to me why having the
ability to talk on the telephone implies a *need* to.

And that's a beef of mine against cellphones: they cause people
to talk at times and places when they'd once have been quiet.

Maybe I'm unusual, but I regard telephones as communication
tools like two-way radios, things to be used for a reason (to
pass useful information) and for no longer than necessary.
Many people seem to think of them as entertainment devices,
more akin to TVs and stereos.



Geoff

--
"Hell has no fury like a pacifist." -- Pete Stickney
Kier
2007-06-17 17:39:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Geoff Miller
Post by Bert Hyman
Since this is cross-posted to a couple of cellphone-related
newsgroups, I guess it's OK for me to express my curiosity
about why so many people feel the need to be on the phone
talking to somebody so much of the time.
Works for me.
I don't get that either. It's unclear to me why having the
ability to talk on the telephone implies a *need* to.
And that's a beef of mine against cellphones: they cause people
to talk at times and places when they'd once have been quiet.
Maybe I'm unusual, but I regard telephones as communication
tools like two-way radios, things to be used for a reason (to
pass useful information) and for no longer than necessary.
Many people seem to think of them as entertainment devices,
more akin to TVs and stereos.
They're very much marketed that way, though, aren't they? Goodness knows,
I've been tempted myself, to by a new phone with mp3 capability, just so I
don't have to risk my expensive multimedia portable going to and from work
- I could get one for thirty quid right now, with a 256 meg mini-SD card
thrown in free. It's a pretty crappy phone, but since I hardly use the
phone I've got, and it cost me only a new SIM (being a second-hand one
from a friend), I might go for it.

I've noted that my workmates often use their phones for entertainment,
games, or videoing, or surfing, or listening to music, as much or more
than they do actually talking to people. I might well do the same, except
my mobile is too bog-standard to offer anything like that.

Mobiles do seem to have become cheap multimedia players, offering simple
ways to while away the time during lunchbreaks or waiting at railway
stations.
--
Kier
Shawn Hirn
2007-06-18 11:02:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kier
I've noted that my workmates often use their phones for entertainment,
games, or videoing, or surfing, or listening to music, as much or more
than they do actually talking to people. I might well do the same, except
my mobile is too bog-standard to offer anything like that.
Mobiles do seem to have become cheap multimedia players, offering simple
ways to while away the time during lunchbreaks or waiting at railway
stations.
The phone I have now is a smartphone, so it can do practically anything
a computer can do, including play mp3 files. I have no interest in
playing mp3 files on it because I don't want to waste battery power in
case I need to use the phone in an emergency. At long and boring
meetings, I have been known to play solitaire on it though!
Elmo P. Shagnasty
2007-06-17 19:22:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Geoff Miller
It's unclear to me why having the
ability to talk on the telephone implies a *need* to.
And that's a beef of mine against cellphones: they cause people
to talk at times and places when they'd once have been quiet.
I know a guy who CANNOT *not* answer his phone.

He carries two phones, one personal and one from his employer. I have
seen him have three people on the phone at once--one on his personal
phone, one on his work phone, and one on his work phone that he put on
hold to take the second call on his work phone.

I'll be talking to him, his phone will ring, and he'll never ever say,
"Screw it" and ignore it.

Me, I can ignore a ringing phone like nobody's business.
Scott en Aztlán
2007-06-18 05:04:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Elmo P. Shagnasty
Post by Geoff Miller
It's unclear to me why having the
ability to talk on the telephone implies a *need* to.
And that's a beef of mine against cellphones: they cause people
to talk at times and places when they'd once have been quiet.
I know a guy who CANNOT *not* answer his phone.
Google the phrase "pavlov's dogs" sometime and you'll understand why.
Post by Elmo P. Shagnasty
Me, I can ignore a ringing phone like nobody's business.
Same here - especially if it's a telemarketer. :)
--
I hated Bush before it was cool.
Jer
2007-06-18 08:33:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Elmo P. Shagnasty
Post by Geoff Miller
It's unclear to me why having the
ability to talk on the telephone implies a *need* to.
And that's a beef of mine against cellphones: they cause people
to talk at times and places when they'd once have been quiet.
I know a guy who CANNOT *not* answer his phone.
He carries two phones, one personal and one from his employer. I have
seen him have three people on the phone at once--one on his personal
phone, one on his work phone, and one on his work phone that he put on
hold to take the second call on his work phone.
I'll be talking to him, his phone will ring, and he'll never ever say,
"Screw it" and ignore it.
Me, I can ignore a ringing phone like nobody's business.
No telephone has the constitutional right to be answered simply because
it rang.
--
jer
email reply - I am not a 'ten'
Shawn Hirn
2007-06-18 11:00:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jer
Post by Elmo P. Shagnasty
Post by Geoff Miller
It's unclear to me why having the
ability to talk on the telephone implies a *need* to.
And that's a beef of mine against cellphones: they cause people
to talk at times and places when they'd once have been quiet.
I know a guy who CANNOT *not* answer his phone.
He carries two phones, one personal and one from his employer. I have
seen him have three people on the phone at once--one on his personal
phone, one on his work phone, and one on his work phone that he put on
hold to take the second call on his work phone.
I'll be talking to him, his phone will ring, and he'll never ever say,
"Screw it" and ignore it.
Me, I can ignore a ringing phone like nobody's business.
No telephone has the constitutional right to be answered simply because
it rang.
I agree, and my cell phone spends most of its time on vibrate mode.
Shawn Hirn
2007-06-18 10:59:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Elmo P. Shagnasty
Post by Geoff Miller
It's unclear to me why having the
ability to talk on the telephone implies a *need* to.
And that's a beef of mine against cellphones: they cause people
to talk at times and places when they'd once have been quiet.
I know a guy who CANNOT *not* answer his phone.
My sister's like that. I used to joke with her that she was born with a
phone attached to her ear! When we were kids in the 70's, I saw her
dozing off with the phone in her ear a few times.

My cell phone was lost this weekend. Its a Palm 700p smartphone and I
honestly feel naked with out it, even though I don't use it a lot for
talking. I use it for far more than just cell phone conversations. Its
my employer's and its insured, so the first thing on my agenda today
when I get to my office is to replace it.
Larry
2007-06-18 11:37:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Shawn Hirn
My sister's like that. I used to joke with her that she was born with a
phone attached to her ear! When we were kids in the 70's, I saw her
dozing off with the phone in her ear a few times.
That could explain why she's gettin' it and your not....(c;

Larry
--
http://www.spp.gov/
The end of the USA and its Constitution....RIP
allen goforth
2007-06-17 16:27:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bert Hyman
Since this is cross-posted to a couple of cellphone-related newsgroups,
I guess it's OK for me to express my curiosity about why so many
people feel the need to be on the phone talking to somebody so much of
the time.
Kids I can understand; hanging on the landline phone was common long
before the advent of the cellphone.
Adults however, they're a different story, aren't they?
With truckdrivers it is sure boredom. You have your satellite radio
and cellphone and CB radio to keep you from going nuts.
Justin
2007-06-17 15:45:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Geoff Miller
What I don't understand about the whole iPod/Walkman/Discman
phenomenon is why so many people feel the need to listen to
music so much of the time. Personally, I find music distrac-
ting when I'm trying to concentrate on something else. And
even when I'm not concentrating on anything in particular, I'm
usually quite content just to think.
To keep other noises out, to keep entertained going to and from
locations, to listen to things beside music. Look at the podcast
community.
Kier
2007-06-17 16:47:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Justin
Post by Geoff Miller
What I don't understand about the whole iPod/Walkman/Discman
phenomenon is why so many people feel the need to listen to
music so much of the time. Personally, I find music distrac-
ting when I'm trying to concentrate on something else. And
even when I'm not concentrating on anything in particular, I'm
usually quite content just to think.
To keep other noises out, to keep entertained going to and from
locations, to listen to things beside music. Look at the podcast
community.
Talking books and audio dramas, too, I should imagine, for the busy
commuter.
--
Kier
Geoff Miller
2007-06-17 16:15:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Justin
To keep other noises out, to keep entertained going to and from
locations, to listen to things beside music. Look at the podcast
community.
Admittedly, podcasts are something that intrgues me more and more.



Geoff

--
"Hell has no fury like a pacifist." -- Pete Stickney
Justin
2007-06-17 16:40:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Geoff Miller
Post by Justin
To keep other noises out, to keep entertained going to and from
locations, to listen to things beside music. Look at the podcast
community.
Admittedly, podcasts are something that intrgues me more and more.
That hour long commute each way is the only real time I have to keep up
on news, be it tech or financial or whatever. Works really well.
Kier
2007-06-17 17:55:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Geoff Miller
Post by Justin
To keep other noises out, to keep entertained going to and from
locations, to listen to things beside music. Look at the podcast
community.
Admittedly, podcasts are something that intrgues me more and more.
I've only recently begun to get into them. Just Linux stuff for now. But
they're quite fun. Strangely enough, my favourite is just a bloke called
Dave, talking about Linux as he drives to work. There's a straight-forward
intimacy in it, almost as if he were chatting to a passenger. He rambles
and digresses, but that's part of the charm
--
Kier
b***@cruller.invalid
2007-06-17 15:58:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Geoff Miller
What I don't understand about the whole iPod/Walkman/Discman
phenomenon is why so many people feel the need to listen to
music so much of the time.
I listen to my audio files all the time, whenever I get a chance. This
seems to offend some people for reasons that are an utter mystery to me.
I hardly every listen to music, even though I have my entire CD
collection ripped to the player.

When I listen, I am almost always listening to lectures for classes,
speeches, reviews or interviews by knowledgeable people on subjects that
interest me; books I don't have time to read (currently working on "Long
Time Gone" by Ishmael Beah), or other commentary that informs me.

Even with the DVR I don't have time to watch NBC's "Meet the Press", for
instance, so I download it, carry it along and listen to it when I can.
I used to listen to many varied news programs, but that has become such
a waste of time since FOX led the mainstream journalistic lemming-like
march off the cliff of populism into the abyss of irrelevance. Now I get
my news from Jon Stewart, ironically, the most trusted name in news. I
DVR that, although I guess I *could* put it on the iPod.
Notan
2007-06-17 16:11:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Geoff Miller
Post by Larry
I just hope the iphone doesn't suck as bad as the ipod does,
and always has.....
Yeah, it's got to suck, considering how many of them have been
sold.
What I don't understand about the whole iPod/Walkman/Discman
phenomenon is why so many people feel the need to listen to
music so much of the time. Personally, I find music distrac-
ting when I'm trying to concentrate on something else. And
even when I'm not concentrating on anything in particular, I'm
usually quite content just to think.
I'm with you, but what *really* kills me is people requesting
different screen savers for their cell phones... Does it get
*any* more mindless!!! <g>
--
Notan
Elmo P. Shagnasty
2007-06-17 19:13:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Notan
Post by Geoff Miller
What I don't understand about the whole iPod/Walkman/Discman
phenomenon is why so many people feel the need to listen to
music so much of the time. Personally, I find music distrac-
ting when I'm trying to concentrate on something else. And
even when I'm not concentrating on anything in particular, I'm
usually quite content just to think.
I'm with you, but what *really* kills me is people requesting
different screen savers for their cell phones... Does it get
*any* more mindless!!! <g>
OK, fat chicks wearing Britney-Spears-style hip huggers and belly shirts
requesting different screen savers for their cell phones.

And buying ringtones like they buy drinks at a bar.
Notan
2007-06-17 19:22:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Elmo P. Shagnasty
Post by Notan
Post by Geoff Miller
What I don't understand about the whole iPod/Walkman/Discman
phenomenon is why so many people feel the need to listen to
music so much of the time. Personally, I find music distrac-
ting when I'm trying to concentrate on something else. And
even when I'm not concentrating on anything in particular, I'm
usually quite content just to think.
I'm with you, but what *really* kills me is people requesting
different screen savers for their cell phones... Does it get
*any* more mindless!!! <g>
OK, fat chicks wearing Britney-Spears-style hip huggers and belly shirts
requesting different screen savers for their cell phones.
And buying ringtones like they buy drinks at a bar.
I stand corrected!
--
Notan
Scotty
2007-06-18 00:10:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Elmo P. Shagnasty
I'm with you, but what really kills me is people requesting
different screen savers for their cell phones... Does it get
any more mindless!!! <g>
OK, fat chicks wearing Britney-Spears-style hip huggers and belly shirts
requesting different screen savers for their cell phones.
Fat chicks wearing hip huggers and belly shirts should be harpooned.
Robin King
2007-06-18 05:37:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scotty
Post by Elmo P. Shagnasty
I'm with you, but what really kills me is people requesting
different screen savers for their cell phones... Does it get
any more mindless!!! <g>
OK, fat chicks wearing Britney-Spears-style hip huggers and belly shirts
requesting different screen savers for their cell phones.
Fat chicks wearing hip huggers and belly shirts should be harpooned.
Sorry boy, you're not my type. Delusions of masculine
prowess are not attractive, especially when what you've got
more likely resembles a toy squirt gun than a harpoon <giggle>

Robin.
Hunter
2007-06-18 10:33:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott en Aztlán
Post by Scotty
Post by Elmo P. Shagnasty
I'm with you, but what really kills me is people requesting
different screen savers for their cell phones... Does it get
any more mindless!!! <g>
OK, fat chicks wearing Britney-Spears-style hip huggers and belly
shirts
Post by Scotty
Post by Elmo P. Shagnasty
requesting different screen savers for their cell phones.
Fat chicks wearing hip huggers and belly shirts should be harpooned.
Sorry boy, you're not my type. Delusions of masculine
prowess are not attractive, especially when what you've got
more likely resembles a toy squirt gun than a harpoon <giggle>
Robin.
Just because a man does not find a pig sexually attractive does not
mean he has ED.

--
Ragnar
2007-06-18 16:23:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hunter
Post by Scott en Aztlán
Post by Scotty
Post by Elmo P. Shagnasty
I'm with you, but what really kills me is people requesting
different screen savers for their cell phones... Does it get
any more mindless!!! <g>
OK, fat chicks wearing Britney-Spears-style hip huggers and belly
shirts
Post by Scotty
Post by Elmo P. Shagnasty
requesting different screen savers for their cell phones.
Fat chicks wearing hip huggers and belly shirts should be harpooned.
Sorry boy, you're not my type. Delusions of masculine
prowess are not attractive, especially when what you've got
more likely resembles a toy squirt gun than a harpoon <giggle>
Robin.
Just because a man does not find a pig sexually attractive does not
mean he has ED.
ED who? Robin was alluding to penis size and not penile function,
Asswipe.

Once again, your overwhelming desire to ridicule those you mistakenly
think are inferior led you to the wrong conclusion. You really need to
get your ass back to that group home for the intellectually changed
and the socially inapt where you belong.

Ragnar
Shawn Hirn
2007-06-18 10:53:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Elmo P. Shagnasty
Post by Notan
Post by Geoff Miller
What I don't understand about the whole iPod/Walkman/Discman
phenomenon is why so many people feel the need to listen to
music so much of the time. Personally, I find music distrac-
ting when I'm trying to concentrate on something else. And
even when I'm not concentrating on anything in particular, I'm
usually quite content just to think.
I'm with you, but what *really* kills me is people requesting
different screen savers for their cell phones... Does it get
*any* more mindless!!! <g>
OK, fat chicks wearing Britney-Spears-style hip huggers and belly shirts
requesting different screen savers for their cell phones.
And buying ringtones like they buy drinks at a bar.
I don't know what you mean by the second statement, but the first ought
to be illegal. Fat woman who wear those hip huggers and belly shirts
really have no clue.
Booger
2007-06-18 05:41:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Geoff Miller
What I don't understand about the whole iPod/Walkman/Discman
phenomenon is why so many people feel the need to listen to
music so much of the time. Personally, I find music distrac-
ting when I'm trying to concentrate on something else.
Because these are people who do not think. They concentrate on nothing.
Shawn Hirn
2007-06-18 10:52:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Geoff Miller
Post by Larry
I just hope the iphone doesn't suck as bad as the ipod does,
and always has.....
Yeah, it's got to suck, considering how many of them have been
sold.
What I don't understand about the whole iPod/Walkman/Discman
phenomenon is why so many people feel the need to listen to
music so much of the time. Personally, I find music distrac-
ting when I'm trying to concentrate on something else. And
even when I'm not concentrating on anything in particular, I'm
usually quite content just to think.
I usually just use my iPod at the gym. On the subway, I see a lot of
people listening to an mp3 player, but I prefer to be aware of my
surroundings when I am on a train (so I can here the announcements), but
listening to music is certainly more conducive to thinking then loud
train noise.
Kurt
2007-06-18 00:09:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry
Post by Lex
Tips for landing an iPhone
People have just GOT to be NUTS! There's no other way to explain their
stupidity being lead around like dogs on a leash....by the ad hypers.
I just hope the iphone doesn't suck as bad as the ipod does, and always
has.....
Larry
Enjoying your Zune?

LOL
--
To reply by email, remove the word "space"
rick++
2007-06-18 15:24:20 UTC
Permalink
Are there people standing in line yet? :-)

I recall the line started about five days early for PS3
last year and two days early for Wii. About half of
these people where going buy two- and ebay one
of them to pay for both.
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