Question Regarding GRISOFT AVG Licensing

[Derek Mark Edding]

Hi Folks,

About two years ago, a relative of mine tried the Anti-virus software
AVG from GRISOFT (www.grisoft.com). At that time the software was free.
My relative liked it enough that we bought licenses for it anyway. We
purchased five unlimited, lifetime licenses to the software and its
virus definition updates. This was not a trivial expense, but it was
less than the commercial products available at the time.

A couple of months ago, we were notified by the AVG software that we
needed to upgrade to Version 7 because support for the previous version
(Version 6) was discontinued. We upgraded our systems to Version 7.

This month we have been notified by AVG Version 7 that our licenses have
all expired, and we will no longer receive virus definition updates.

Even though we purchased unlimited licenses, GRISOFT has made the
licensing agreement for Version 7 to be only two years at most - from
the date of the *original* product installation. So GRISOFT has
*retroactively* used up our "unlimited" licenses!

My relative contacted GRISOFT via email, and pointed out that we
purchased unlimited licenses for their product. GRISOFT replied and
said that Version 7 does not have an unlimited license, the maximum is
two years. They deny any responsibility to honor past agreements. We
are willing to go back to using Version 6. However, they have withdrawn
support for any older versions of AVG.

In other words, we no longer have any product support from them.

I'm fully aware that what the large print giveth, the small print taketh
away, but in this case it seems like over-the-top false advertising. If
you buy a product that by its very definition is one thing, can
licensing turn it into something far less? Or even, completely
eliminate its value? Is the fine print truly "no holds barred"?

If someone has real experience along these lines, please weigh in. I
thought other people might have been complaining about this practice by
now, but google hasn't turned up anything so far.

Thanks for any help (if ya gotta flame, I aways read those on misc.test)

-dreq

[Mike Berger]

I don't see anything misleading here.

You bought a lifetime license for a software product. The product
functions exactly as it did when you bought it -- even better
because you had the benefit of updates for two years. AVG has not
revoked your license to use the product, nor have they disabled it.

They have produced an entirely new version of the product. If you
want it, you can buy it (I'll bet there's an upgrade price for
owners of Version 6). If you don't want to, you can continue to
use the Version 6 software you licensed. But don't expect free
upgrades for it anymore.

You said you don't have "product support" anymore but didn't indicate
what kind of support you needed. If you use the software you bought
with the operating systems it was intended to work with, you probably
don't need any support. If you mean you wanted the newest product
for the rest of your life at no extra cost, your expectations were
unrealistic.

Post by Derek Mark Edding
Hi Folks,
About two years ago, a relative of mine tried the Anti-virus software
AVG from GRISOFT (www.grisoft.com). At that time the software was free.
My relative liked it enough that we bought licenses for it anyway. We
purchased five unlimited, lifetime licenses to the software and its
virus definition updates. This was not a trivial expense, but it was
less than the commercial products available at the time.
A couple of months ago, we were notified by the AVG software that we
needed to upgrade to Version 7 because support for the previous version
(Version 6) was discontinued. We upgraded our systems to Version 7.
This month we have been notified by AVG Version 7 that our licenses have
all expired, and we will no longer receive virus definition updates.
Even though we purchased unlimited licenses, GRISOFT has made the
licensing agreement for Version 7 to be only two years at most - from
the date of the *original* product installation. So GRISOFT has
*retroactively* used up our "unlimited" licenses!
My relative contacted GRISOFT via email, and pointed out that we
purchased unlimited licenses for their product. GRISOFT replied and
said that Version 7 does not have an unlimited license, the maximum is
two years. They deny any responsibility to honor past agreements. We
are willing to go back to using Version 6. However, they have withdrawn
support for any older versions of AVG.
In other words, we no longer have any product support from them.
I'm fully aware that what the large print giveth, the small print taketh
away, but in this case it seems like over-the-top false advertising. If
you buy a product that by its very definition is one thing, can
licensing turn it into something far less? Or even, completely
eliminate its value? Is the fine print truly "no holds barred"?
If someone has real experience along these lines, please weigh in. I
thought other people might have been complaining about this practice by
now, but google hasn't turned up anything so far.
Thanks for any help (if ya gotta flame, I aways read those on misc.test)
-dreq

[bat]

Hello Mike:

if you carefully read the original post, you'll see the following:

"We purchased five unlimited, lifetime licenses to the software and its
virus definition updates. "

_If_ this was the case indeed, then it looks like they are violating that
promise by refusing to provide the updates for version 6. For comparison,
McAfee is still providing the updates for VirusScan 4, which is 6 major
releases behind the current version 10.

MB> If you mean you wanted the newest product for the rest of your life at
MB> no extra cost, your expectations were unrealistic.

The same AVG effectively do just that with their free product, which is
still being offered and being upgraded to new versions.

regards

[Mike T.]

Post by Derek Mark Edding
Hi Folks,
About two years ago, a relative of mine tried the Anti-virus software AVG
from GRISOFT (www.grisoft.com). At that time the software was free. My
relative liked it enough that we bought licenses for it anyway. We
purchased five unlimited, lifetime licenses to the software and its virus
definition updates. This was not a trivial expense, but it was less than
the commercial products available at the time.
A couple of months ago, we were notified by the AVG software that we
needed to upgrade to Version 7 because support for the previous version
(Version 6) was discontinued. We upgraded our systems to Version 7.
This month we have been notified by AVG Version 7 that our licenses have
all expired, and we will no longer receive virus definition updates.

I'd be really pissed, if I were you. I had something similar happen. I
signed up for a LIFETIME FREE e-mail forwarding service. Basically, it was
a good idea, as I never had to change my e-mail address, regardless of how
many times I changed my ISP. (just change the "forward to" address) After
several years of using this LIFETIME FREE e-mail forwarding service, I was
informed that the e-mail forwarding service would no longer be free. By
this time, everybody I knew was using the e-mail address (which was going to
stop being free) to e-mail me. It was a major pain in the ASS, but I
changed my e-mail address. No way was I going to send the company one cent
of my money, after deceiving me like that. Someone could probably argue
that I can't complain, as I got several years of free service. Yup, but it
was supposed to be a LIFETIME of FREE service. So it was a clear-cut case
of bait and switch. You could also call it blackmail. That is, pay us
money or lose your e-mail. The service was mail.com, BTW

I also use AVG anti-virus on certain computers (not my main one). Overall,
I find that their anti-virus product works pretty darn well. I've never
been motivated to buy a license for it. But a couple of times, I've had to
uninstall it and REinstall it, because the version I was running was no
longer supported. Also, I've discovered the hard way that you can't
reinstall it from an 'old' (more than a couple months) installation file.
If you try it, you will be re-directed to the web site where they sell their
commercial products. So the free version is somewhat similar to what many
would call "nagware" now.

But back to the topic . . . if you object too much to paying for AVG, there
are a few alternatives.
1) You can uninstall your current version, and then reinstall the free
version, linked below. If you are running the free version, you license
never expires. But then, you have to uninstall and reinstall periodically.
(not hard)
http://free.grisoft.com/doc/2/lng/us/tpl/v5
2) Run a search on froogle for Panda Platinum Internet Security 2005. Many
vendors are currently selling the (OEM/CD Only) version for less than ten
bucks now, probably because it's close to the end of the year and the
current version is 2006? It comes with a ONE YEAR license. A one year
license is kind of short, but for the price, that's not bad. The anti-virus
is just as good as AVG, but it includes several other programs as well. For
example, it is a firewall and anti-spyware program, also. VERY powerful
(almost too powerful) I use this to protect my wife's computer, as she
needs all the help she can get. :)
http://www.pandasoftware.com/products/HomeParticulares.htm?sitepanda=particulares
3) Run a search on froogle for Trend Micro PC-Cillin Internet Security
2005. This one will be a little more expensive than Panda, but it's rated
as the best all-purpose Internet security suite available, even compared to
Symantec/Norton, which will be MUCHO expensive.
http://www.trendmicro.com/en/products/desktop/pc-cillin/evaluate/overview.htm
4) You could buy some kind of anti-virus ONLY solution, even from Panda or
Trend. BUT, you really should be using a good firewall and spyware scanner,
also. Both of the security suites I mentioned above include these programs.
With the more expensive of the two available for 25 bucks, it's kind of a
no-brainer to go for the full suite. If you insist on purchasing only
anti-virus software, you can always download zonealarm (firewall) and
ad-aware se (spyware scanner), both available as freeware, to give you a
full "suite" of Internet security software.

I'm afraid the era of free anti-virus solutions is just about over. From
all the downloading/updating that needs to be done (automatically or
manually) to keep AVG or Panda running, it would seem that hundreds of new
viruses are discovered daily. It's got to be very expensive to keep
computer programmers employed constantly updating all those "virus
definition" files. I know the OP was not posting about a FREE anti-virus
solution. And if AVG offered free updates for life, then I think AVG should
live up to that. HOWEVER, I would be very suspicious of any anti-virus
software publisher who makes a promise like "free updates for life". That's
not a sustainable business model. If it's truly FREE updates, then the
company will probably fold in a few years, at most. Selling the original
product for even 50 bucks or so will NOT be enough constant income to keep
those computer programmers employed keeping up with all the new viruses.
I'm prepared now to shell out money every year or so to get a new "license"
for anti-virus update files. That is, I will do it for any computer that I
really care about. I have some computers that I don't use too frequently.
Those are the ones that don't contain any critical data. For those, the AVG
free and zonealarm freeware is good enough. IMHO But if the average
computer user asks me what to use to protect their own computer, I'd
recommend Panda or Trend Internet security suites. -Dave

[Jeff Jonas]

Post by Mike T.

... We
purchased five unlimited, lifetime licenses to the software and its virus
definition updates. This was not a trivial expense, but it was less than
the commercial products available at the time.
A couple of months ago, we were notified by the AVG software that we
needed to upgrade to Version 7 because support for the previous version
(Version 6) was discontinued. We upgraded our systems to Version 7.
This month we have been notified by AVG Version 7 that our licenses have
all expired, and we will no longer receive virus definition updates.

I'm afraid that "lifetime" support now means "lifetime of the product",
which can be as short as a few months.
At least the software doesn't contain logic "bombs" to self-destruct.

I share your frustration: I have boxes of abandoned software and hardware
that I can't use because the mfgr refuses to release the tech specs
even though they abandoned the product years ago.

"you can buy it but you don't own it".

While a full disclosure of the firmware and schematics would be nice
and support the open-source community, just enough tech specs
for me to KEEP USING THE STUFF I OWN would be a useful right.
That's the ultimate in "recycling": keep it running!

I have cards from Xircom with a lifetime-warranty and trade-in option.
Despite registering my network devices,
I was never informed when the "lifetime" program ended.

On the bright side, /some/ companies really support things forever.
They're typically small niche companies but they earn their customer's dedication.

Post by Mike T.
I'd be really pissed, if I were you. I had something similar happen. I
signed up for a LIFETIME FREE e-mail forwarding service.

I have stacks of similar things:
- I believe bigfoot.com used to run free mail servers,
not just metered email forwarding
- I have a CD for K-mart's free internet "bluelight.com":
- and CDs for netzero when it was unlimited access for free

all those offers depended on (advertising) funding that no longer exists.

[Ken Knecht]

Post by Derek Mark Edding
Hi Folks,
About two years ago, a relative of mine tried the Anti-virus software
AVG from GRISOFT (www.grisoft.com). At that time the software was free.
My relative liked it enough that we bought licenses for it anyway. We
purchased five unlimited, lifetime licenses to the software and its
virus definition updates. This was not a trivial expense, but it was
less than the commercial products available at the time.
A couple of months ago, we were notified by the AVG software that we
needed to upgrade to Version 7 because support for the previous version
(Version 6) was discontinued. We upgraded our systems to Version 7.
This month we have been notified by AVG Version 7 that our licenses have
all expired, and we will no longer receive virus definition updates.
Even though we purchased unlimited licenses, GRISOFT has made the
licensing agreement for Version 7 to be only two years at most - from
the date of the *original* product installation. So GRISOFT has
*retroactively* used up our "unlimited" licenses!
My relative contacted GRISOFT via email, and pointed out that we
purchased unlimited licenses for their product. GRISOFT replied and
said that Version 7 does not have an unlimited license, the maximum is
two years. They deny any responsibility to honor past agreements. We
are willing to go back to using Version 6. However, they have withdrawn
support for any older versions of AVG.
In other words, we no longer have any product support from them.
I'm fully aware that what the large print giveth, the small print taketh
away, but in this case it seems like over-the-top false advertising. If
you buy a product that by its very definition is one thing, can
licensing turn it into something far less? Or even, completely
eliminate its value? Is the fine print truly "no holds barred"?
If someone has real experience along these lines, please weigh in. I
thought other people might have been complaining about this practice by
now, but google hasn't turned up anything so far.
Thanks for any help (if ya gotta flame, I aways read those on misc.test)
-dreq

I have a product called AVG Free (AVG Anti-virus Free Edition) which
updates the virus definitions with no problem.

[Shaun Eli]

Not infrequently, stores such as Staples and CompUSA offer Norton
AntiVirus and/or McAfee anti-virus that are free after a rebate. So
you pay sales tax and pay for a stamp, and you get the product for
free. Usually that means a year of updates.

I realize this doesn't solve your problem with AVG (and it seems nasty
that they promise free lifetime service and apparently won't give
updates, because anti-virus software is useless without updates) but at
least you can get some anti-virus protection.

Shaun Eli
http://www.BrainChampagne.com
Brain Champagne: Clever Comedy for the Smarter Audience (sm)