Restaurants overcharging on Debit Cards

[j***@yahoo.com]

I use my ATM/POS/DEBIT/VISA/KITCHENSINK card regularly to pay for meals
at restaurants.

I usually leave a cash tip, so my bill is always equal to the amount of
the tab. However, when I check my balance online I see a hold for an
amount of the bill + a variable amount. When the hold goes through a
few days later the charge is the correct amount.

I am thinking that they are adding in a percentage to cover the tip in
case I walk out and don't sign the receipt and add in tip???

It just doesn't seem to right to hold my money hostage for three to
four days. Plus, to me, it's a bit presumptious to assume that you get
a 20% tip.

bhr

[Dave]

Post by j***@yahoo.com
I use my ATM/POS/DEBIT/VISA/KITCHENSINK card regularly to pay for meals
at restaurants.
I usually leave a cash tip, so my bill is always equal to the amount of
the tab. However, when I check my balance online I see a hold for an
amount of the bill + a variable amount. When the hold goes through a
few days later the charge is the correct amount.
I am thinking that they are adding in a percentage to cover the tip in
case I walk out and don't sign the receipt and add in tip???
It just doesn't seem to right to hold my money hostage for three to
four days. Plus, to me, it's a bit presumptious to assume that you get
a 20% tip.
bhr

They are placing a hold on a certain amount of money IN CASE you want to add
a tip to the debit amount. But according to the rules of the VISA and
MasterCard merchant agreements, they ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO DO THAT. Most
restaurants violate the rules of their merchant agreements and do it anyway.
The agreements that they accepted clearly state that they are NOT to add any
amount to a hold on a debit for a gratuity, unless the gratuity is added by
the cardholder. In other words, if you leave a tip in cash, then the hold
on your debit card should be the actual amount of the check, period. -Dave

[Shawn Hirn]

Post by j***@yahoo.com
I use my ATM/POS/DEBIT/VISA/KITCHENSINK card regularly to pay for meals
at restaurants.
I usually leave a cash tip, so my bill is always equal to the amount of
the tab. However, when I check my balance online I see a hold for an
amount of the bill + a variable amount. When the hold goes through a
few days later the charge is the correct amount.
I am thinking that they are adding in a percentage to cover the tip in
case I walk out and don't sign the receipt and add in tip???
It just doesn't seem to right to hold my money hostage for three to
four days. Plus, to me, it's a bit presumptious to assume that you get
a 20% tip.

Contact your bank to complain, or make life easier (and safer) for
yourself and either pay for your meals out with a real credit card or
cold hard cash.

[markansas859]

Post by j***@yahoo.com
I use my ATM/POS/DEBIT/VISA/KITCHENSINK card regularly to pay for
meals at restaurants.
I usually leave a cash tip, so my bill is always equal to the amount
of the tab. However, when I check my balance online I see a hold for
an amount of the bill + a variable amount. When the hold goes through
a few days later the charge is the correct amount.
I am thinking that they are adding in a percentage to cover the tip in
case I walk out and don't sign the receipt and add in tip???
It just doesn't seem to right to hold my money hostage for three to
four days. Plus, to me, it's a bit presumptious to assume that you get
a 20% tip.
bhr

Pizza Hut does that to me all the time. not a biggie, eventually the correct
amount is debited.

[Scott en Aztlán]

Post by j***@yahoo.com
I use my ATM/POS/DEBIT/VISA/KITCHENSINK card regularly to pay for meals
at restaurants.
I usually leave a cash tip, so my bill is always equal to the amount of
the tab. However, when I check my balance online I see a hold for an
amount of the bill + a variable amount. When the hold goes through a
few days later the charge is the correct amount.
I am thinking that they are adding in a percentage to cover the tip in
case I walk out and don't sign the receipt and add in tip???
It just doesn't seem to right to hold my money hostage for three to
four days. Plus, to me, it's a bit presumptious to assume that you get
a 20% tip.

Bullshit like this is why I always pay for my restaurant bill in cash.
I'm usually able to leave exact change, so I never have to sit around
for 20 minutes while the waitress brings me my change. Call me
cynical, but I could swear that some waitpeople *purposely* drag their
feet in bringing the change back in the hopes that I'll get fed up and
leave, allowing them to pocket a larger tip.

Paying in cash also prevents the "script kiddie" thief from swiping my
credit/debit card through his personal mag stripe reader, jotting down
the card's CVC, and then making a few online purchases later on.

[*com (Dan Lanciani)]

In article <***@4ax.com>, ***@yahoo.com (Scott en Aztln) writes:

| Paying in cash also prevents the "script kiddie" thief from swiping my
| credit/debit card through his personal mag stripe reader, jotting down
| the card's CVC, and then making a few online purchases later on.

Is there any reason not to obscure the CVC on physical credit cards? Is
it ever needed for card-present transactions?

Dan Lanciani
***@danlan.*com

[Capri]

there is nothing illegal about it. Many restaurants do it as well as
gas staions and other retail outlets. What you can do to avoiud this is
very simple. When the merchant asks you if it is going to be credit or
debit make sure you say debit. If you dont, they may add the additional
amount. If you say debit they can only put it in for the amount of the
charge because that is what YOU are giving autrhorization for when you
enter your pin#. Many folks just say credit to avoid the hassle of the
pin#. Some point of point of sale machines are set up to automatically
add a creertain amount to all credit transactions...which you would
never know about on your credit card.

[Don Klipstein]

Post by Capri
there is nothing illegal about it. Many restaurants do it as well as
gas staions and other retail outlets. What you can do to avoiud this is
very simple. When the merchant asks you if it is going to be credit or
debit make sure you say debit. If you dont, they may add the additional
amount. If you say debit they can only put it in for the amount of the
charge because that is what YOU are giving autrhorization for when you
enter your pin#.

I thought a few articles ago this was a problem more of debit.

I work for a restaurant that takes credit cards. I have heard of a very
small number of complaints about the charge including allowance for a 20%
tip to "hold onto" until the restaurant "batches out" at a time close to
its closing for the night and releases "actual tip" data to the merchant
account. And this I have heard of more as a "credit" problem rather than
a "debit" one.
Furthermore, the restaurant I work for takes no action to do this "hold
for 20% tip" - blame the computers at their merchant account!

The restaurant has no incentive to "batch out" less frequently than
daily, since they get none of the money until after the delay specified in
the merchant account agreement after "batching out". At least where I
work, the restaurant does not even get to borrow any of the 20% tip
allowance above actual tips for so much as an hour!

If the "hold for 20% tip" lasts longer than maybe 18-20 hours, the
credit card holder should first blame their issuing company, second any
restaurant merchant account that is slow to forward downward corrections
in amount charged, and as a distant third any restaurant whose manager is
too pooped out at the end of the night to "batch out" nightly to get each
day's credit card revenue on the soonest day afterwards possible! The one
where I work "batches out" every night 7 days a week!

- Don Klipstein (***@misty.com)

[Mike Berger]

I figured the restaurants do this because they run your credit
card with the meal total, then give you the slip to sign (and
add tip if you want). They've already processed the charge
though they haven't done the "batch out" yet. When you complete
and sign the receipt, the final corrections are made, but not
processed until the batch is complete.

Post by Don Klipstein
I work for a restaurant that takes credit cards. I have heard of a very
small number of complaints about the charge including allowance for a 20%
tip to "hold onto" until the restaurant "batches out" at a time close to
its closing for the night and releases "actual tip" data to the merchant
account. And this I have heard of more as a "credit" problem rather than
a "debit" one.
Furthermore, the restaurant I work for takes no action to do this "hold
for 20% tip" - blame the computers at their merchant account!
The restaurant has no incentive to "batch out" less frequently than
daily, since they get none of the money until after the delay specified in
the merchant account agreement after "batching out". At least where I
work, the restaurant does not even get to borrow any of the 20% tip
allowance above actual tips for so much as an hour!

[Mike T.]

Post by Capri
there is nothing illegal about it. Many restaurants do it as well as
gas staions and other retail outlets. What you can do to avoiud this is
very simple. When the merchant asks you if it is going to be credit or
debit make sure you say debit. If you dont, they may add the additional
amount. If you say debit they can only put it in for the amount of the
charge because that is what YOU are giving autrhorization for when you
enter your pin#.

Most restaurants will add a gratuity hold, even if the transaction is known
to be debit transaction by all persons involved in processing the
transaction. They aren't SUPPOSED to, but they do anyway. I know it's at
the restaurant level that it's happening, as it doesn't happen at ALL
restaurants. -Dave

[leegrimsley]

Colters BBQ of Texas does this -- adds the tip -- even though it is a
self serve cafeteria and there is no one to tip.

I talked with the manager at Colters and he informed me this was done
just in case you wanted to leave a tip.

This is a big deal.

Suppose I paid my bill by cash and on the way out I saw two pieces of
pie I wanted priced at $1.50 each.

What if I picked them up and continued out the door after telling the
manager I would get back to him and settle up in two or three days?

He would have me arrested for shoplifting -- yet he is doing the same
thing to me and thinks it is ok.

Bank of America thinks it is ok too.

Online banking of BOA is now issuing a disclaimer which states this
"usually happens and will be straightened out in three or four days
when the transaction becomes final."

Colters is not the only one -- nor is Bank of America -- engaged in
these practices.

QT service stations is another.

I used a debit card for a purchase there, entered my pin and when I got
home found out they not only had a hold on my account for the amount of
purchase but another hold for $50.

QT's regional office told me when you use a debit card at the pump it
automatically places a hold for $50 to cover your purchase -- then when
the purchase is completed the exact amount replaces the $50 hold.

In my case it didn't -- it was added to it. QT blamed Bank of America
and Bank of America blamed QT.

In the mean time I was out $38 service charge for BOA paying an item I
did not have the money on deposit to cover -- and refused to refund the
charge.

QT officials told me to select the credit card option at the pump, even
though it was a debit card, and only a $1 hold would be placed on my
account.

I did that and sure enough it worked.

But...

The balance in online banking after my last transaction was deducted
was $1 less than my available balance -- and this was done with
absolutely no explanation as to where the $1 difference was or why.
Three days later when the transaction posted it was balanced out again.

The bottom line is -- banks and businesses who practice this are doing
to their customers what they would have those customers arrested if it
was reversed and we did it to them.

[Mike Berger]

Your analogy isn't accurate. It would be more accurate if you
placed a hold on the pies, but didn't actually remove them. In
that case the restaurant would have a good laugh at your expense,
but it wouldn't actually cost them anything.

Post by leegrimsley
Colters BBQ of Texas does this -- adds the tip -- even though it is a
self serve cafeteria and there is no one to tip.
I talked with the manager at Colters and he informed me this was done
just in case you wanted to leave a tip.
This is a big deal.
Suppose I paid my bill by cash and on the way out I saw two pieces of
pie I wanted priced at $1.50 each.
What if I picked them up and continued out the door after telling the
manager I would get back to him and settle up in two or three days?
He would have me arrested for shoplifting -- yet he is doing the same
thing to me and thinks it is ok.

[leegrimsley]

Talk about an incorrect analogy -- you really came up with one.

When Colters placed the "hold" on my account that money was no longer
available to me. I could not spend it even though it was mine and did
not belong to them.

Anyway you look at it this constitutes theft -- maybe not permenant
theft -- but they have deprived me of my money that they have no right
to.

What they are doing in essence is the same principal of kiting or
floating a check -- using money on a temporary basis that is not theirs
to use.

[Wordsmith]

Post by j***@yahoo.com
I use my ATM/POS/DEBIT/VISA/KITCHENSINK card regularly to pay for meals
at restaurants.
I usually leave a cash tip, so my bill is always equal to the amount of
the tab. However, when I check my balance online I see a hold for an
amount of the bill + a variable amount. When the hold goes through a
few days later the charge is the correct amount.
I am thinking that they are adding in a percentage to cover the tip in
case I walk out and don't sign the receipt and add in tip???
It just doesn't seem to right to hold my money hostage for three to
four days. Plus, to me, it's a bit presumptious to assume that you get
a 20% tip.
bhr

Try this: assure the waiter/tress from the outset that you have every
intent of leaving a cash tip. That might help.


W : )